Far From Afghanistan post-screening discussion with David Pendleton, John Gianvito and Soon-Mi Yoo.

Transcript

For more interviews and talks, visit the Harvard Film Archive Visiting Artists Collection page.

John Quackenbush  0:01  

March 10, 2013. The Harvard Film Archive screened Far from Afghanistan. This is the recording of the Q&A that followed the screening. Participating are HFA Programmer David Pendleton and filmmakers John Gianvito and Soon-Mi Yoo.

[APPLAUSE]

John Gianvito  0:39  

Before too many people leave, I just want to first acknowledge some folks who were very important in their realization of the film and who are here tonight. The co-producer of the film, Mike Bowes, who's somewhere…

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In the history of my so-called career, this is the first time I've actually ever had a producer and it was very helpful. And the producer of my individual segment, Nick Manley, is here.

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The supervising editor for post-production process for the film, and co-editor with me on my segment, Eric Gulliver. [APPLAUSE] The sound mixer Chrissy Hunt, I think is here. [APPLAUSE] Excuse me if I'm forgetting other folks.

Soon-Mi Yoo  1:54  

I’d like to thank Christina Kolozsvary, Mike Bucuzzo. I don't know if Adam Depalma is here, who helped out with the project, and also Eric Gulliver, and others.

[APPLAUSE]

Soon-Mi Yoo

Pacho!

John Gianvito  2:18  

Oh, yeah. Pacho Velez who—along with Rob Todd and I—did all the editing of all the material that came from Afghanistan from the Afghan Voices group. Is Pacho still here?

[APPLAUSE]

David Pendleton  2:38  

Maybe I'll ask one or two opening questions before we throw it open to the audience. I think, after such a powerful film, in order to help us get our thoughts in order, maybe we can start with something very basic, if you can just talk a little bit about your participation and your participation in the film. It's a collective film, which is also something interesting to talk about, as well, and what that means. But maybe you could start by talking, if you want to, about exactly what your role was in making the films.

John Gianvito  3:16  

So the projects started to take shape in my mind in March of 2011. I was in the process of editing another film at that point—which is a critique of us militarism, but doesn't directly talk about the war in Afghanistan—and I had read this Pew Research Institute report that I cite in the film that at the end of 2010, only 4% of all US media made any reference at all to the war at that point. And then later that year, at the end 2011, it was down to 2%. And yet, I had also known that, statistically, those were the deadliest years on both sides during that period. So I felt, you know, at the most exasperated point, we were paying the least heed to it. And that in a way I felt I was contributing to that silence and I felt like many people I know that unless you have a personal connection or a friend or relative engaged in the war, that it was just the easiest thing to go weeks or months without even being cognizant that we were in meshed in the longest war in US history. So I was thinking about this.

And I was also aware that at the end of that following October, there’d be the sobering anniversary of ten years of being at war. So I felt that I wanted to somehow acknowledge that moment and not let it pass and comment upon it and so on. From March till October how to make something satisfying and and so I thought about the form of the omnibus film, and felt that that might be a way for a group of people to work in a short period of time with, at that point, no producers and nothing to offer beyond just the idea. And I thought about Loin du Vietnam, which we can talk about later perhaps, but I began a process of contacting one by one various US-based filmmakers who I admired for the commitment they showed to social justice first and foremost in the work that they did. And I eventually reached about twenty-five people, some very well known to many people here and others not. And virtually everyone responded positively to the concept. Many were already involved in other projects and couldn't take it on at that moment. And we gradually had a group of eight and for other reasons, as we got closer to the date, some of the other projects fell to the side. And so that began a process to make the film.

We didn't make that date. We did have a version that was ninety-minutes long that we called “The October Edition.” And we put it up online for free for the week of anniversary, and apparently, a couple thousand people saw it, but I felt that there was still work that could be done on the piece, looking at it at that juncture. And those involved were open to continuing to hone the piece. And then we gradually started to feel the need for images from Afghanistan, and I had reached out to a few folks I'd been told had been shooting over there, but either because we couldn't offer them any money or because of the particular political perspective of the film, they declined to provide material. And then it turned out a former student of mine, Michael Sheridan—who some people here may know, who runs a wonderful organization called Community Supported Film, who's been going over to Afghanistan for the last number of years, training young Afghans to make their own films—put me in touch with this particular organization called Afghan Voices. And over a period of time, Soon-Mi and I began communications with the director of the group to see if we might work together.

David Pendleton  7:51  

Soon-Mi, do you want to talk a little bit about your participation in the film? Maybe just start by identifying the sequence that's yours.

Soon-Mi Yoo  8:02  

The third one, “Afghan, the Next Generation.” I joined the project because John asked me. I'm saying that not to be kind of cheeky, but actually, before John asked me—and I say this on the website [in] my filmmaker statement, that I knew, like a lot of us, the war was going on. And yet, it wasn't quite—you know, I had my other projects that I was working on, and then teaching and everything—quite on the foreground of my daily existence or consciousness. And so I thought about it when John asked me, and felt guilty for not paying more attention. And so that was sort of my initial impulse to join up. And also this collaborative project is the first time I've done this, and my work is generally kind of short and experimental in form, even though my interests overlap with a lot of documentary concerns. And it was just kind of an amazing opportunity to work with these other filmmakers and have a dialogue with them. And also, because I'm based in Boston and I mean, this was really John's vision that really put the whole project together and you know, John really worked very hard in working out tiny little details and [worked with] a lot of folks at Emerson, that we probably forgot to thank. But because I'm here, we got to talk and have a little more involvement with a project. And I’d just like to say that, lastly, that when we looked at Far from Vietnam as an inspiration and aspiration, we agreed that that the having the footage—even though it's called Far from Vietnam and our film is called Far from Afghanistan—having that footage, that shot in North Vietnam, was crucial for the piece as an anchor to measure the distance from, and that for us, you know, because I wanted to go to Afghanistan when John asked me and, and that summer, I had already planned to go to North Korea. So it was just logistically not possible for me to go and shoot in Afghanistan. And he was actually at that point.

John Gianvito  11:12  

And Soon-Mi has said that she also was a little concerned—properly, I think—what the US government would think of her going to both North Korea and Afghanistan in the same couple of weeks.

Soon-Mi Yoo  11:25  

Not your destination of choice, I guess.

David Pendleton  11:30  

That’s how you get on one of those do-not-fly lists.

Soon-Mi Yoo  11:33  

Yeah, well… or something. And so then, when we contacted Michael Sheridan, and got this footage, both of us really were involved in that footage, and that's how I got to you, some of them in my segment.

David Pendleton  11:53  

Well, I mean, it's that question of distance, or dissociation between here and Afghanistan, begins with the title, but runs throughout the piece, and I think it actually does an interesting job of, on the one hand, sort of expressing a certain dissociation and on the other hand, trying to bridge that distance. And I'm wondering, John, if you could say a little bit more about when putting– I'm assuming that you're the one who put all the pieces in their final form? Or put the pieces in order, let's say. To what extent were you aware of this question of distance, both trying to express it and also trying to bridge it or perhaps earlier on in the project?

John Gianvito  12:35  

Well, you're exactly right. The opening letter of invitation spoke about this sense of detachment and about the necessity to try to bridge it, not only here, but internationally. We were aware that already people were perceiving the war as winding down, and that, depending on when we got it finished, people might say, “Well, you know, why are you even doing this? The war is over.” And there was a level on which we felt that we wanted to approach the war in Afghanistan as a symptom of a larger disease, as I expressed it, and that there was even a moment in time where one of the segments was going to be shot in Haiti and make analogies between that in Afghanistan. And early on Soon-Mi was thinking to do something in South Korea that would look back on history and make connections. But the evolution of it was rather organic, and there was a lot of exchange of ideas along the way, so that we knew what other people were doing, so there wouldn't be too much overlap, but that they would be contiguous, that there would be resonance between the pieces and and so we were sharing edits over the internet and sharing books and articles and so forth. I'd made copies of the Far from Vietnam film for everyone.

And then the decision about the structure I guess, you know, ultimately, I made final decisions, but they were well informed by that process. And, I know the producers had some small groups that they assembled in New York and elsewhere to look at the cut and it had a different shape at other times before we got that kind of feedback that suggested that this probably might be the the order.

Soon-Mi Yoo  14:51  

The distance... It's sort of as John said, distance in terms of the makers ourselves working from a distance. Distance in a sense that the Vietnam War was called “the living room war,” you had people watching the war footage, and that this modern warfare now is basically a distance [from] war. It’s a hyper-technical, logical sort of thing where the drones are going to just take you out or whatever you happen to be in, and they, you know, whatever, wherever, and so forth. And so that's part of the distance. Distance, in a sense that also—in my case, and we talked about this a lot—is that the history actually of American foreign policy. People have this amnesia, they never seem to—I have to say “we” or “I” including myself—learn from the past mistakes or crimes, and so all of those things, I think, are part of this discourse on distance. And what can be done from a distance and yet, as you said, how to bridge the distance or think about it as a question. Distance is like a question mark, really, for us.

David Pendleton  16:30  

Thank you. Are there questions? Speaking of question marks, I'll go ahead and open it up to the audience now. I have more questions, but–

John Gianvito  16:36  

And making comments too. Happy to hear your reactions.

David Pendleton  16:39  

And there is a mic. We would like to pass a mic to you so we can all hear you. Stefen, you want to go ahead and pass it to that gentleman?

Audience 1  16:46  

First of all, congratulations on a wonderful film. And my question was, did you get a chance to show drafts of the edits to people over in Afghanistan or get any type of feedback from them at some junctures, or…?

John Gianvito  17:03  

Just partially. It was a slow process of incorporating their material. They shot for us for two weeks in different parts of the country and sent us back a full hard drive full of hours and hours of material and then seven DVDs of hours and hours of more material. And both in Dari and Pashto, and we had two translators come with us in the editing room for quite an extensive time to try to understand what was there.

And then, as we built segments, we edited more than ended up in the film and to try to get it to adhere to the other footage was not so easy. There were times where people felt that it really wasn't going to work. So we waited until we were further along before we actually sent that there. But I did get a very positive response from the group. Their internet connections are also slow, so it was somewhat hard to watch.

But just a few weeks ago, I finally met [?Suleiman Ahmadzad?], who's the principal organizer here in Boston, who was just by chance, touring with the students from the Afghanistan Institute of Music that came to the US for the very first time—they were some of the students you see in the music school in the film—and performed at the Kennedy Center and Carnegie Hall and here at the New England Conservatory. And so I found out within a few hours that he was here, and we connected and he's hoping to arrange for a screening of this film in Kabul in April. So we'll see what the larger response is.

David Pendleton  18:58  

Other questions? Well, while people formulate the questions, maybe I'll ask another question.

A correlative of this question of distance is, I think, one of dissociation or denial from the war that I think a lot of us feel as Americans and I think it's a marked contrast in your film. So often in Far from Afghanistan, we see individuals who were somewhat isolated—except in the Afghan footage—but the American footage is often about individuals who feel themselves isolated or sort of distanced from their society, as opposed to the American images in Far from Vietnam, where we see people in the street, whether they're marching in favor of the war or against the war, there's this sense that it's something that exists socially. And yet at the same time, the film itself is a collection of individuals but who are also working as a collective, and I'm wondering, as you were assembling the film, as you were working on the film, if these questions of not just the place of the war within American society, but also the way that it questions the relation between the individual and the collective and where that stands today, if that was something that was also in your mind as you were working on the film?

Soon-Mi Yoo  20:20  

So you're asking whether we talked about this sense of dissociation or…?

David Pendleton  20:27  

Well, if you could also talk about whether you discussed working on the film as a way to address that dissociation or that alienation, or again, with a question of expressing it, or a question of sort of bridging it.

Soon-Mi Yoo  20:41  

Well, for me, it was actually a completely new experience, and also, ultimately, very hopeful. And, yeah, I mean, I understand when I watch the film, I do get that sense, and I understand what you're saying that this war—the longest war—that the US is conducting, actually is so removed from us even though they're spending what $2 billion a week or whatever, something like that. And that is part of the disease. That’s a big part of the problem. The propaganda machine now is so successful that we don't even know where to look. When we don't see or hear anything about it, it doesn't surprise us, or it doesn't cause any kind of outrage, which is kind of strange when you really think about it, right? And so then one feels hopeless. One feels really impotent. When I was actually studying a little for this Q&A today before the screening—both of us, John and I, we had to study a little—I mean, it's been a while since we worked on this piece, you know, and I'm looking at my notes or other things that we've talked about, or thought about, and I had to stop, because it was making me too upset. Like if you stop and think about what's going on, it really is quite upsetting. And yet, that's not what's going on, even compared to Far from Vietnam, or ‘68—around ‘68—what was going on compared to now, it's just... that's a big problem. And so, this small gesture of John's initiation, and overall sort of guidance in the project, really is for me, giving a sense of hope, about at least making a small gesture of looking in the right direction. I mean, I don’t know if that’s what you're asking.

John Gianvito  23:16  

And when we speak about detachment, I don't separate myself from that. I know there was someone who was critiquing my segment as being too judgmental of the people who were clearly enjoying their pleasures, and not thinking about these other concerns. But I don't separate myself from that. On the most personal level, I also have trouble sleeping at night, and that image of the restless sleeper that Andre Gregory plays was sort of me, and I think that restlessness is part just knowing somewhere that things are not right, and not knowing what to do about it. But I also recognize that it's very hard for any of us to look at something painful. It almost seems sadistic if you don't know what to do about it. It's like you look through the channels, and you have a TV and you see the late night, you know, Christian relief channel or something, and it's... But I also think that that's part of how we get ourselves off the hook, we feel like the responsibility lies in other hands and that we don't have some measure of responsibility for what goes on in the world. And so I try to make myself as mindful all the time that I bear a piece of that as well.

David Pendleton  24:47  

I think that's one reason why the film is so powerful because, I mean, a lot of us were protesting against not just the war in Iraq, but also against the war in Afghanistan before it started. And then once it started, one felt so hopeless or helpless to do anything about it. And I think seeing this film, in some ways, again, it serves as a reminder, and it's a very touching gesture coming ten years in to say that this is still happening, we're still thinking about it.

John Gianvito  25:16  

Another kind of hopeful aspect is that, you know, comparing the situation in Vietnam, certainly the fact that reporters could move more freely and that every night on the evening news, families would see these horrific images. People argued it was one of the levers that turned the tide against a popular opinion against that war. And clearly the powers that be have understood the necessity to to clamp down on the visibility of those images. That's why someone like Bradley Manning is so vital to the future of this country, I think. But having said that, even today, twelve years into the war, polls still indicate that on average, something like 62 or 63% of the US public is opposed to the war, even without seeing all those images. And part of that is also when you have economic problems here at home, people would rather see that money used here. I do think absolutely, we should be out of Afghanistan tomorrow, but I don't think we should be financially cut off from them. I think we owe them reparations, and we owe a continuance of support, but support that would find its way to legitimate humanitarian organizations that do exist, peace organizations that do exist—fragile as they may be at times within the country—and not the corrupt regime that's currently being propped up.

David Pendleton  26:52  

Are there other questions in the audience? If you'll raise your hand, we'll get a mic to you. There's a question. Ann has a question down here in the front.

Audience 2  27:08  

How widely do you expect that this film will be shown or hope that it will be shown?

Soon-Mi Yoo  27:22  

As widely as possible.

John Gianvito

I mean, we didn't make it to make money. And we want it to be shown wherever anyone has interest in it. No one has stepped up yet to offer to distribute the film. But as David said, at the beginning, it premiered worldwide in August, but it only finally showed in the United States two weeks ago. And we may eventually just have it available for free on the internet and find ways to just—we're already doing some of this—just giving DVDs to people and so forth. But any which way it can happen, that there's interest.

David Pendleton  28:02  

The world premiere, I believe, was at the Locarno Film Festival this past August, and then it was also in the Toronto Film Festival and is presumably going to other festivals internationally as well.

I have a question for you, Soon-Mi, about your segment. Going back to this question, this idea of images, actually having images from the war because a lot of the film is very powerfully witnessing the current situation, whereas your segment is this sort of taking these archival images, and then it's doing this very clever sort of détournement and like recontextualizing them and reworking them. And I wonder if you could if you could talk about how you came to choose that as a strategy for your involvement in this film.

Soon-Mi Yoo  28:48  

From the very beginning, I mean, I think historical material, especially the Soviet occupation, ten years—almost matching the US. They lost, obviously; [we’ve been] there longer now. So, I don't know if that's a good thing. I don't think it's a good thing. But [something] involving historical context was something I wanted to do.

And I am not completely sure if this was already talked about. I was a little bit nervous at the beginning. John talked about it, but when we began—the five of us—we sort of talked about who's doing what, so that there is not like an obvious overlap or, you know, so forth. And, I think having this historical context was actually really important for Far from Afghanistan. And I wanted to go and if I went, there's a river—oh god, I forget the name of the river between Afghanistan and the Soviet Union. I have seen the Soviet troops going back, leaving Afghanistan. It was winter time and the trucks were just like going across the river and so forth. And I thought that image was really powerful. I wanted to go to the river and the landscape that that witnessed the withdraw, the defeat. And I also wanted to imagine American withdrawal and defeat in it somehow, you know, juxtapose that, as an Afghanistan that's outside of the war discourse. Because Afghanistan is one of the countries like Korea, Vietnam, you talk about it always like a war sort of thing, and I wanted to really include that. But since I couldn't go, when I was looking at this archival footage that's made by the US Information Agency as a propaganda film against how awful the Soviets were in their occupation. I found it really outrageous in a way—or it depends on how you look at it or it depends on the mood I was in—or really funny that what they talked about, what Soviets were doing in Afghanistan, the outrage they were feeling, could apply to what we are doing in Afghanistan now. And so that's how it came about really.

And that I thought also for a film that’s called Far from Afghanistan, that we were [always] looking over a country like Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, drone strikes or surveillance or you know, bombs coming down, always from above, and I wanted to really have a ground view that is not that different now than before. And if I actually listened to what they had captured, what they were saying, “They don't leave us alone in our own home.” You know, they ask a question, like, “Who are the young people?” Well, “they're resilient, they're brave, they don't give up, they fight. And they will continue.” I mean, that's sort of what all their propaganda documentaries are saying. And I was like, “Well, there you go.” That's what it is. It’s going to be. I mean, there is no way that this war that America the empire is conducting is going to have... They're going to win. I mean, it's just not– They don't know, we don't know history. I mean, we just don't know.

David Pendleton  33:02  

Other questions or comments? Or maybe you, there's a hand up back there near the back.

Audience 3  33:11  

I was just wondering if you could talk about the learning experience that happened to either of you while making this film. I mean, you researched the war, the Afghan culture, working in this new collaborative format, reviewing all these countless hours of footage from Afghanistan. Has it changed either of you, in terms of a filmmaking standpoint? I mean, do you think working on this project in this way has impacted you as a filmmaker, either of you?

John Gianvito  33:45  

Well, it definitely was a rare situation to have so many players involved. I mean, eventually, there was maybe a hundred people helping us in various manner. All working for free. I should say no one got paid at all in the making of the film. When we needed money, it was really just unavoidable post-production costs, but every person in front of and behind the camera contributed freely to this. And so whether it was figuring out how to do a Kickstarter campaign or how to get our website or how to get better transfers of archival material or you know, a million details, there was a really wonderful network of people who were available to us and throughout—eventually it was two years to do. So that was something I hope I have an experience of again.

I think I knew ahead of time, but I've really learned how terribly challenging it is to make a successful omnibus film. I mean, historically, those who have seen a lot of them will say, there are a few that worked in their entirety. Usually you can remember one or two episodes one liked, and they're uneven. And part of why we think Far from Vietnam works as well as it does is because you had Chris Marker at the helm, and not only at the helm, but he was given rare permission from all the filmmakers to actually edit their work, which you know, we all made suggestions at times, and some people were more responsive to taking those, but finally, you couldn't just force– I couldn't just force it. So you know, you're trying to get the shape and a rhythm that works as an entirety. And it's a deep problem to have to work with.

Soon-Mi Yoo 36:04  

I mean, I think that the film working as well as it does, really, it's John's and others’ tireless effort really. And we did have a lot of—I wouldn't say doubts—but we were uncertain, I think, for a while at the beginning and working, how these segments—they are so different—and so-called journalistic material from Afghanistan, shot by Afghan Voices, were going to actually work together. And that this hybrid form– I mean, I guess, in the end, John—I'm sure did, and I did—had faith that it would hold together, like they would sit next to each other. And then, without having any of us just kind of like trying to force anything, and that was a big sort of learning experience for me.

To answer your question, Nick, I don't think I got the last part of your question, but I'm just imagining what you might have said, and I'm just gonna answer it anyway. Is that because I think that my mode of production in general is very solitary. You know, I go and I shoot and I edit and I write and and I think that working on this film, actually, I think it changed me and my modes of production a little bit, in a sense that I really am more interested in a little more direct address and these different impulses that we all have. At MoMA somebody asked us, “How do you reconcile or how do you work with the political and the poetic?” And I think about that question. I mean, I think that what I said was that [they weren’t] mutually exclusive, you know, the different impulses can actually coexist in a piece. And I would like to try to actually put that in practice.

David Pendleton  38:47  

You could probably actually go through the film and see each segment as like, five different ways, in a way, of balancing the political and the poetic or different ways of integrating them. I mean, one of the reasons why Far from Vietnam has this unified flow to the extent that it does is because there's this voiceover narration, except for a couple of standout episodes. And so I'm assuming that early on, you decided there would be no unifying voice like that.

John Gianvito  39:16  

it was late that we decided not to. Soon-Mi was actually one of the ones most sort of keeping that idea on the table. And I was saying, “Okay, but you write it, and I'll see if it works.” But so we didn't incorporate that element. But those of you who are fortunate enough to see tomorrow night’s screening, which is a rare archival print, restored print, of a classic work, one of the things that by studying it that we were noticing, because they don't identify the individual filmmakers throughout the film as you would normally in those films—and aesthetically they are very disparate—but you come away with a sense of a unified statement, and part of it is the way they use graphics and titles and we tried to use some of that too so that it might just momentarily keep in abeyance your conscious thinking about “Okay, now I'm going into another segment,” that we would throw you off a little enough so that you would keep experiencing it as one film and not waiting for a particular part.

David Pendleton  40:31  

There's a point in the middle, where I think that there's a way in which Jon Jost’s segment flows into your segment, with the Afghan Voices in between. And then there's also Afghan Voices footage that's clearly Afghan Voices footage inside your episode, and then the drone footage shows back up in Minda Martin’s, and so there is in the middle, this sort of flow where it really does feel like this collective outpouring.

Soon-Mi Yoo  40:54  

Yes, I was going to say that Far from Vietnam, tomorrow’s screening—I feel like I'm working for Harvard Film Archive now—you must see that film. I mean, it's amazing. Amazing film. Seven o'clock, right?

David Pendleton  41:12  

Yes. Somebody was– Oh, we got a couple of… Hang on. There's somebody else that we haven't heard from behind you. And then we'll come back.

Audience 4  41:21  

I would like to share something more than ask something. I am originally from Chile. And twelve years ago, I was an exchange student in New York State, and I had a friend who was in my senior year. And twelve years from then I came back and I found out that he went to Afghanistan, and that he committed suicide. That's for Justin. And I guess you already answered my question. I was going to ask about the narrative of the movie and how you combine poetical perspectives and very documentary perspectives. But you kind of already answered that. And I have to say that for a moment, when I was watching some of the images, I remember, when you were doing the interviews for the mother, especially the mother of this boy, and I was trying to watch that. It was really hard for me and I stopped watching. And at the moment, I stopped watching, it came out, the black image. And it's just like that, I feel that the various footage you got and how you harmonically got it all together, it's just that it's so connected maybe to the same feeling, like every filmmaker had that same feeling. And it's the same feeling I had. So it's just like, I really appreciate that connection. That's my commentary. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Audience 5  43:07  

Yeah, I my comment was exact, pretty much along the same lines that I thought the film had a lot of unity. And that, to me, it was amazing how a lot of the themes were kind of recycling each other's ideas, and re-presenting them and in a way making them kind of richer, kind of resonant. And so in a way, in a strange– I don't know what to compare it to, but maybe it's a little bit like jazz, like, where it's very freeform, but at the same time there's a unity to it. I don't know, I really thought it was very well done.

David Pendleton  43:44  

Ah, there’s a question way up here. Hang on just a few seconds, and Stefen will come down and hand you a mic. Oh, you know what, let's see if this will reach. It probably won't.

I think it's easier.

Audience 6  43:58  

Yeah. So on the segment, showing the slice of everyday American life and people getting a pedicure, etc., did you ever consider having some scenes of communities of faith in their everyday ceremonies, communities that are absent from this slaughter?

John Gianvito  44:27  

I didn't. My idea was to focus on what I generally describe to myself as frivolous behavior or behavior that might be innocuous, but if the house next door to you was on fire and you were deciding to, in the midst of that, go on a roller coaster or something, would that be okay? And if we're really making ourselves fully aware of what's happening daily in that war, does it really make sit well that certain behaviors would be undertaken? And I think that's a question we should always be asking, because there's more than enough misery to go around if your eyes are open, and the fact that it's not literally the house next door to you. If it was, people would chastise you for that behavior. So, what physical distance does it no longer be your issue? So... Yeah.

Audience 6  45:45  

So what you don't see—I was raised Catholic [INAUDIBLE]—and what you don't see is the marine recruiter in the Catholic high schools. That's what you don't see. And that is an accepted vocation for them to follow. And it's just... it's macabre.

David Pendleton  46:10  

Thank you. Other questions or comments?

John Gianvito  46:20  

We're happy to have people just come up and talk to us one-to-one or however...

David Pendleton  46:28  

Well, in that case, thank you all. Thanks to Soon-Mi Yoo and to John Gianvito! Thank you.

[APPLAUSE]

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