Audio transcription

For more interviews and talks, visit the Harvard Film Archive Visiting Artists Collection page.

In Between Days introduction and post-screening discussion with Haden Guest and So Yong Kim. Sunday February 22, 2009.

HADEN GUEST  0:02  

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Haden Guest. I'm the director of the Harvard Film Archive, and I want to thank you all for coming, deciding not to come see the Academy Awards and seeing something much more valuable. And this is, of course, the first evening of our two-evening retrospective dedicated to one of the more promising and interesting young filmmakers working in contemporary independent cinema, So Yong Kim. So Yong Kim, who was born in South Korea, came to the United States at a young age, has made two films, two feature films. We're going to be seeing the first tonight In Between Days from 2006. This is a film that won major awards in Sundance in Berlin, and has been hailed almost unanimously by critics, as really an incredibly promising and remarkably accomplished first film.

We're also going to be seeing Treeless Mountain tomorrow night which is So’s second film which– She's actually flying back from Berlin. She was at the Berlin Film Festival and that's why she's not with us tonight to introduce the film, but she's going to be here afterwards. We just confirmed that the plane has landed and she's on her way. But no, at Berlin, Treeless Mountain was hailed as one of the best films of the festival. Dubious honor because the competition films are so awful this year. But it's really, no, it's a remarkable film. We're also going to be seeing one of So’s early short films. She began her career as an art student at the Art Institute of Chicago and made a series of wonderful short video works. And the one we're going to be seeing was a collaboration with Christopher Doyle, the renowned cinematographer, best known for his work with a variety of Asian filmmakers. So, In Between Days, is a work shot on digital video. It's handheld, it's sort of rough-hewn, but remarkably subtle, remarkably soft-spoken. It's a film that leaves out as much as it reveals. And I think it's an extraordinary film. And I'm really so glad that we'll have an opportunity to speak with So afterwards.

I want to thank the Korea Institute here at Harvard and especially its director Susan Lawrence and Catherine Glover. This program is a series of annual events that the Harvard Film Archive is doing together with the Korea Institute as part of a larger initiative to build up resources here at Harvard for Korean Studies. And one of the end results of this is that we are acquiring both of the films, both of the feature films. We're getting a new print of Treeless Mountain, and we're actually going to have a copy of In Between Days as well. I also want to thank the Academy of Korean Studies in Korea for helping us with this program. And now I give you, In Between Days.

[APPLAUSE]

HADEN GUEST  3:34  

Join me in welcoming So Yong Kim.

[APPLAUSE]

SO YONG KIM  3:46  

Thank you for watching the film and coming out.

HADEN GUEST 3:49  

Well, thank you. Thank you so much for coming, So. So just arrived from Iceland, just about an hour ago. 

I thought I would just begin So by asking just a few questions to get things started. First of all, this is a really marvelous film, I'm so glad we could showcase your work. In Between Days is in so many ways about certain, in betweenness, you know, this relationship between the young couples, between best friends, and boyfriend and girlfriend, also Aimee’s status as an immigrant or within this sort of immigrant community or not within the community. But one of the best ways I think this in betweenness is expressed as is within the place itself, this x urban space, which isn't really defined as a specific place. We're not given any landmarks. I believe this was shot in Toronto, right? I was wondering if you could talk about your use of locations and how you chose locations and what you wanted for the overall look of the film.

SO YONG KIM  5:09  

First of all, thank you for inviting me and the film here.

When I wrote the script, it was actually based in or set in Los Angeles. So I thought for a long time that, you know, the locations would be in LA, because I grew up in LA, and I knew that place quite well. So the kids were also different because they were driving cars and stuff, so the characters were really different from what you see in the film. So what happened was, we went out to LA to do the location scout, and my husband and I, we were looking around and it just didn't feel right to me. It just didn't work for the story that I'd written on the pages with the locations that we saw. So then we were asking friends around and there was a friend from Toronto and he said that Toronto had the second largest Korean community. So, we decided to go and have a look, and at that time, we were living in New York, so we just drove up there. And the places that we saw, I thought, had the essence that I felt were really connected to the story for some reason. It still had these strip malls similar to Los Angeles, but the community up there felt a lot more what I imagined the story to be like. It was perfect somehow to set the story.

And then we met some really great people who were willing to help us and, because it was my first feature, and I didn't go to film school. So I didn't have any sort of pedigree that said that oh, I have this short film, look at this, give me some money and then give me your equipment and all that stuff. But what we found was a really good co-producer from Toronto, and she was totally open to helping us find locations and also allowing us to get permits from the city and all that stuff. It was just magical. You know, it was almost like the pieces were falling in automatically or something; all the stars were aligning. So, yeah, that's how it came about. And landmarks. Yeah, so we decided to shoot in Toronto, and then, they have the tower and stuff like that and the trolley. I really wanted to take that out of the story, so that it becomes specifically an urban environment, but you can't place it anywhere.

HADEN GUEST  7:54  

Well, I'm fascinated by the idea, it seems to me the season, taking place in winter is so essential to so much of the film and sort of wintery spaces outside, the sound of the snow you hear at the beginning. So I'm fascinated that that wasn't part of the original conception of the film.

SO YONG KIM  8:14  

No, it wasn't actually. The story was in LA in summertime, but because we were locating it to Toronto and because actually the main lead, Jiseon—who plays Aimee—she was going to school at that time and the only time she had off was during Christmas holidays for three weeks. So we basically picked her up on the 26th of December and then drove her to Toronto, and start shooting on the 28th. Then we drove her home on January 19th.

HADEN GUEST  8:50  

Wow.

AUDIENCE  8:51

Where is her home?

SO YONG KIM 8:52  

She lives in New Jersey.

HADEN GUEST  8:57  

There's so much the film is shot in these extreme close-ups. And in some ways I feel like, you know, that hood that Aimee's wearing that's sort of like the perspective we get, I think in the film and I’m also fascinated in the way you decided what to leave out of the story, and how little backstory we're given here, you know, we’re in medias res. And we sort of start filling things in as much as we can. I was wondering if you can talk about that process. Was this something where you had the story and then you were taking elements out when you were conceiving of the story, for instance, we don't know exactly how the mother and daughter have come to this unnamed city.

SO YONG KIM  9:47  

Yeah, when I first wrote the script, it was actually really really long because it covered 30 years of Aimee's life, and I kept writing and writing and writing and it was a never ending thing and then I showed it to my producer and husband, I said, “Here, I have a film idea.” And he read this long, long script. And he's like, “Well, you can't make this into a film, you know, it's gonna be impossible, it will take you forever.” So he suggested that I pick a specific period in this person's life, you know, that I feel most connected to at the time. So I picked her, you know that age that you see in the film. And then I just kind of dove into that. And it took another two years for me to get the script done. And also, he came on board and took a bunch of stuff out, because he was the only producer I had. And basically, he said, “Oh, they can't drive a car. We don't have money.” So he cut that out. I mean, that was the process of rewriting that he did, and so, and they get on the bus because they don't have a car. So, stuff like that. What was the question? I'm sorry.

HADEN GUEST  11:03  

The question was just, you know, your decision—well you answered it, what to leave out. And there's this idea of still leaving enough in that everything makes sense. And it still resonates. And the absent father, for instance, is so important to the film.

SO YONG KIM  11:19  

Right, so, yeah, so I wrote this script and he was helping me cut a bunch of stuff out. And then I don't know if this helps people, but what I did was right before we started shooting before December 26th, on December 25th, I went through the script. And for each scene, I wrote just a single sentence. So, what Aimee feels: "Aimee's upset because Tran is not answering the phone." Next line... So when we got to Toronto, basically, we only had like one page that represented the script, and I shot the film from that, if that makes sense, if that's helpful.

HADEN GUEST  12:00  

No, I think that is. Let's take some questions from the audience. We do have a microphone, an audience mic, which is going to be passed around. If you could just wait for that. That would be great. Two questions side by side here.

AUDIENCE  12:17  

I was very moved by the voiceover of Aimee reading the sort of her love letters to her lost father, and then the found letter of the love letter that she took from the car and then put back--it really gave sort of an entree into Aimee's inner world. And I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about the genesis of the letter writing?

SO YONG KIM  12:45  

Yeah, I think, hmm. Well, actually, Brad, when he was editing, going through the script and helping me rewrite some of the scenes and stuff, he thought it'd be good to have the card with the pictures, you know, when they go steal the stereo. And then I felt like that would seem too much of a coincidence that they would find this card and I wanted that to somehow tie in to Aimee a little bit more. So what we did or what I did in the mornings, because when we were shooting this film we were actually living in the apartment that you see Aimee living in, so the cast and the crew are living in this apartment.

HADEN GUEST  13:32  

[LAUGHS]

SO YONG KIM  13:34

And Jiseon, the actress, sleeps in Aimee's bedroom, so five or six in the morning I would sneak in with the video camera, shoot her sleeping or I would go in and ask her to say these lines that are supposedly to her dad, or read some text for me or tell me her dreams. Or sometimes she'll just get mad and tell me to leave and stuff, but it was something they would do every morning or every other morning, you know, so I just kind of collected these texts and dialogue or monologues, and then I really didn't know how it would fit into the film, but when I was editing and also I asked the DP, Sarah, to shoot some still shots of the landscape or the window, snow, and things like that. So when I was editing, it somehow set the tempo and kind of merged in together with the narrative. So it was kind of a found footage.

AUDIENCE  14:50  

In the movie, there are three times where her friend asks her to do something for him like the first time was a tattoo and the third time I believe was sex. But the second time, he asks, she offers to do something for him when they're watching TV and I wasn't really quite sure what that was.

SO YONG KIM  15:12  

Well, that's funny, because I had to have a meeting with Jiseon's parents…

[LAUGHTER]

...so I could get a permission from them. And it took a long time to have this meeting. And then so, I brought them a five-page synopsis of the film. And in one of the sentences says: Aimee jacks off Tran on the couch. But her parents didn't know what jack off was, so I had to explain to them what it was and how we would shoot it. So yeah, so she's supposedly giving him a handjob. But then I got yelled at by my husband. He said, “Why didn't you change it to handjob not jack off.”

HADEN GUEST  16:02  

In the back, there’s a question right behind you, Amanda.

AUDIENCE  16:08  

I was just struck by how extraordinary the performances were. And we're just in such a different emotional register than we typically are in movies, moved by such small and subtle shifts in expression and postures and tones and things. So I was just wondering, especially with such young actors, how did you work with them? Was there a lot of preparation? I know you improvised quite a bit, but what was the process of talking them through scenes?

SO YONG KIM  16:46  

Well, we didn’t talk through any of the scenes except for the handjob scene. So let’s see. They didn’t read the script at all. So they didn’t know what the overall, I mean, they didn't know the details of the scenes, they didn't know the arc of the story. Basically, I told them it's a story about two friends who are, you know, it's a boy and a girl, and there's a tension between them. How did I work with them? Okay, so Taegu who plays Tran. I'm sorry, I'm a little loopy because I'm jetlagged. So Taegu said yes to the film, and I cast him after I saw him at a nightclub at two in the morning in Toronto. So he thought we were making a porno but he said yes anyway...

[LAUGHTER]

...because he's 19 and he's open to do anything. So anyway, with that start, he was ready to do anything, so he was very open to whatever I asked him to do. Jiseon was very open as well and trusting, but the way we did the scenes. I kind of in the mornings, I would just say, “Okay, we're going to do a scene in the room, and then we'll do the scene in the kitchen.” And I had a couple of rules before we started shooting. Never look into the camera, never look at me. When the cameras are rolling, I'm going to be constantly talking to them. And also, they always have to look at each other when they're talking. And so there were these basic rules that they always have to follow. And they were very good at following these rules. So that’s number one. And they met on December 27. And then we start shooting on December 28. We didn't have any rehearsal and then we just went from day one, started shooting I think 12 to 14 hour days, and then we break at six for SpongeBob and then go back to shooting at eight. But, you know, things like that. But I think it worked because we spent a long time casting these two leads to make sure that they are the right people. And they were comfortable playing themselves almost in front of the camera. So I did a lot of video interviews with Jiseon before we started shooting. And Taegu, because he was in Toronto, I didn’t get to interview him, but I just had a feeling about him that he could be Tran. So, and he would be very fun to work with. So there were no problems with them interacting. And yeah, I don't know it was a while ago that I was working with these kids, so I don't remember the exact details but as I remember them, I will tell you.

AUDIENCE  20:07  

We had a chance to actually watch a number of other films [UNKNOWN]. This movie is somewhat similar to some of the movies we've seen where this highly self-absorbed person, in this particular case, person likes quite a bit of mobility because you took their transportation ability out of the way, put it in a remote setting where they didn't have the ability to be independent and what in your mind, in your personal life that allows you to set this kind of personal setting where a person with absolute no possibility or limited abilities looking at the world and with a limited interface and getting the right frame of mind to go forward?

AUDIENCE  20:52 

One of the things we have seen in the past year is Nagisa Oshima or his other movie we've seen where highly politically-charged person seeking tensions and then taking actions on his own things and number of other movies about for example, Patty Hearst and others, they're there in their own rights they're highly affluent and motivated person when they seek tension. In this particular case, a person with absolutely no ability but still highly self-absorbed. When she's talking to her dad about wish you were here perhaps, and like for you to come here and see the settings and stuff. Granted she’s making a letter to her dad, but still she's talking about someone to pay attention to her behavior intention, correct?

HADEN GUEST  21:50

[INAUDIBLE]

SO YONG KIM  21:58  

I'm not sure if I could answer that correctly for you. But yeah, I mean, the story is based on my own personal life and experience of growing up in Los Angeles. So I wanted to make a film about that, specifically, just so that I could tell a very personal story. But when I was making it, I didn't think that it would ever get out to an audience per se because I come from a fine arts background. So it's always been this feeling that I'm making something for like, maybe a handful of friends. So it's more a way for me to express something, an emotion or a feeling or something that’s ephemeral that I lost or that I felt once. So it's not anything more than that. Perhaps, so...does that help?

AUDIENCE  23:18  

I will just follow up with that then, when did you find your own identity and find the strength. Now this is In Between Days therefore, when did you find the reference point to go forward, correct direction in your mind then?

SO YONG KIM  23:33  

How did I find the strength? I'm sorry, how did I find the strength to make this?  Well, you know, I was working for a company for a long time in New York. And my husband is actually a filmmaker and he made this great film in Iceland and we basically sold everything we had and moved to Iceland to make this film and I produced it. And I learned how to make films, like narrative films, through that experience. So, I think, yeah, that was like a stepping stone for me.

HADEN GUEST  24:13  

All right, we've got quite a number of questions here, maybe right here. And we'll get to everybody too. Oh, okay, we could start there, there, and there.

AUDIENCE  24:24  

I just want to connect to the opening question because I hadn't read anything about the movie so I didn't know where it was located. It was funny because I thought at first, that the expats were the teachers. And, you know, the weather was so similar to North America, but then, I thought the film was shot in Korea. So, it was really, yeah, it was interesting. So my question is, in your vision, how the construction of the identification of the location is functional to the story that you tell us?

HADEN GUEST  25:03  

In what ways, I guess, is the location a function of the story itself and in this case this idea that the city can’t be named or we can’t figure out where it is?

SO YONG KIM  25:14  

Yeah, I think you could tell that it's Toronto, then it becomes specific to a Canadian experience. Or if we shot in Los Angeles, I mean, in New York, and you saw the Empire State Building, it becomes a New York specific experience. But I think this goes back to Haden's questions about close-ups and the intimacy of the image. And I think what I wanted to explore because it is a personal experience, this challenge of creating an intimacy between the viewer and my main character and see if that's possible, so I think, that's the intent. Oh, but by the way, this salesperson for my film thought that we shot it in Korea as well.

HADEN GUEST  26:13  

[LAUGHS] So, right here in the front. Yes.

AUDIENCE  26:18  

You said that both the actors and actresses, they were obviously able to speak Korean, but when you were directing, were you speaking in English or Korean or both?

SO YONG KIM  26:32  

Yeah, I was switching back and forth between Korean and English because Taegu is fluent in English and French and Korean, well, a little bit of Korean, but Jiseon is mostly Korean.

AUDIENCE  26:45  

Were they .5 generations or were they fully first-generation?

SO YONG KIM  26:52  

Taegu is first. Is he? Yeah, and Jiseon is .5.

AUDIENCE  27:08  

Yeah, I just had a real quick question. Michelle, the girlfriend of Taegu at the end of the movie—was she supposed to be Korean?

SO YONG KIM  27:19  

Yeah, she's more Korean American. Well, she is Korean American.

AUDIENCE  27:22  

Okay, so she then didn't learn because I noticed that the dynamic between her and Aimee--they don't speak. I mean, she always speaks English. She doesn't speak Korean.

SO YONG KIM  27:32

Right.

AUDIENCE  27:34

And was the interpretation of that because she doesn't know how to speak Korean, because she's not an immigrant?

SO YONG KIM  27:40  

Well, it's more like you could say, she could speak Korean if she wanted to, but she chooses not to. It's more of, like a power game. But yeah, if that makes sense.

HADEN GUEST  27:56  

The question right here in the... right, right. If you could pass the mic and reach, yes.

AUDIENCE  28:03  

My question is three parts so first, what is the socioeconomic status of...

HADEN GUEST 28:09  

Can you hold the mic up?

AUDIENCE  28:10  

Thanks. The socioeconomic status of the girl. What was that in the movie? It was like lower or lower-middle. Lower. Do you think?

SO YONG KIM  28:222

In the ending?

HADEN GUEST  28:23  

The socioeconomic status of Aimee. [INAUDIBLE]

SO YONG KIM  28:32  

Aimee? Yeah, it's I think you know, recently arrived immigrant family, struggling.

AUDIENCE  28:39

Struggling. Yeah. Okay. So do you know what the girl’s actual socioeconomic status is in real life?

HADEN GUEST  28:46

The actress’ actual status in real life...

SO YONG KIM  28:51  

Pretty similar.

AUDIENCE  28:57  

The reason I wanted to– Because she has such self-possession, sort of, so you wouldn't expect. Sometimes it's harder for someone in a lower socioeconomic status to find that and so.

SO YONG KIM  29:09

No, she's like the only child in her family and she's been brought up with a lot of self-esteem, and she has a very strong character.

HADEN GUEST 29:21  

Great, thank you.

AUDIENCE  29:25  

Did you enjoy making the film or was it hell? I'm guessing...

SO YONG KIM  29:30  

[LAUGHS] Well, it's like it's so funny because yeah, actually, I like I enjoy production. So I'm sure when I was shooting, it was hellish. But on reflection, it must have been fun. Yeah.

AUDIENCE  29:46  

And how hard was it after you? I'm a filmmaker, and I'm probably like where you were just before you made this film. But how hard was it after you've made it and you’ve made it, you've edited it. You have a film. How hard was the process of getting it out there and convincing people that this was a film that they wanted to show?

SO YONG KIM  30:09  

Yeah, it was hard. Yes, because we're going through that with our films now. But yeah, like I said, I made this film just for myself, and we shot it on video and, we financed it completely ourselves and I edited it for nine months, and I didn't know how to edit. So it was like, huge learning curve for me. And then, when I was finished, I’m like, what do we do? And then luckily, my producer-husband had a connection with Sundance. So we submitted it and got it in, so...

AUDIENCE  30:54    

[INAUDIBLE]

SO YONG KIM 31:01  

Oh, wow, it's a long process. But yeah, you submit to the best festivals and you hope that they show your film. And then you hope that the sales companies will come and represent your film and then you hope the distributors will come and pick up your film, then you hope that distributors will treat your film nicely. And then you hope that it will get to the theaters and then... I didn't realize how long and rigorous that process after you make the film can be, but it can be. Yeah. Just to warn you, but it's great.

HADEN GUEST  31:36  

Great, let's see, right here in the middle. Okay, well, there and there. Go ahead, take that question in the back.

AUDIENCE  31:44  

I just wanted to ask you about something you said about how you directed the actors you said, one of the rules was that they should be, that you would talk to them during the performances and since they never read the script, were you sort of like as they would begin the scene and act, were you sort of seeing or thinking yourself, “Ah, this is a good direction.” And so you would sort of give them a little something to go on. And then kind of forming the scene in the moment. Is that what you meant by, they should expect you to speak to them? Was it more just like, “No, stop looking at…” Much more specific? Like, “Don't look at the table.”

SO YONG KIM  32:25  

Yeah, it's actually much more rudimentary. It's more like, “Okay. Jiseon, touch him on the shoulder. Okay. Move your finger down. Yeah. Say that you’re bored, draw a heart on the page.” It's constant. And then, you know, as much as I like to think that like, well some of the scenes are improvised, but almost all the dialogue was in the script. The setting might have changed a little bit, and the situation might have changed a little bit, but I had to make sure that certain dialogue was there for the story to work. So I read the dialogue to them out of frame.

HADEN GUEST  33:16  

All right, so we have a question right here.

AUDIENCE  33:22  

It's perhaps a strange question to ask, but I feel like if I don't ask it, I'll be forever curious about this. But I happened to notice in your soundtrack, you have music from Asobi Seksu. And I was just wondering, I guess how that entered the film because I never expected to hear any of their music in a film. And it was a pleasant surprise, but just wondering if there's an interesting story to that or [INAUDIBLE].

SO YONG KIM  33:49  

Yeah, I wanted to use this one music for the end credits and then we couldn't afford it because we didn't have any money. So a friend of mine who works in the indie music scene told me to look up Asobi Seksu, who and then it happened that they were doing I think Katrina, some benefit concert or something. So we went there—and I actually downloaded their music on the internet for free—and then, I went to their concert. And then I said, “Oh, I downloaded your music and I loved it. Oops, for free, but can I use your music for free?” Like it was terrible. So I thought for sure this is a terrible thing to do. And then two weeks later, they emailed us and said, "sure." Yeah, so, ya know. I got really lucky with that, because they're really great. And then for my second film, they actually composed a song for me, so yeah.

AUDIENCE  35:01

So Aimee's dad left them. It wasn't clear in the film and maybe it wasn't supposed to. But I wasn't sure if he left the family when they were still in Korea and then they immigrated to Toronto for a new life, or if they were already immigrated when he left them, and then they just changed cities.

SO YONG KIM  35:20  

No, it’s like, her parents divorced in Korea and Mom and Aimee are in Toronto and then Dad is in Korea. So I think that's where the landscapes and photos and postcards come in. I call them postcards, the stills with her notes to her dad. [INAUDIBLE]

HADEN GUEST  35:42

Go ahead.

AUDIENCE  35:44

[INAUDIBLE]

HADEN GUEST  35:49  

What happens next in the long story of Aimee's life?

SO YONG KIM  35:52  

It's really funny because I think the story that I wrote was just really long and terrible. So I don't even remember. There were so many different endings. And originally I think way, way back, it's not Tran. It’s really not that...Tran is not the main focus. I guess it's just briefly but there's like a best friend character who comes in and then it becomes a story about them into their 20s. But it was kind of boring.

[LAUGHTER]

HADEN GUEST  36:30  

Okay, well, I think that wraps up tonight. And tomorrow night, we have So Yong Kim's new film, Treeless Mountain, which you absolutely must see. So we'll see you all tomorrow night. Thank you.

[APPLAUSE]

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