Audio transcription

John Quackenbush  0:00 

February 10, 2017. The Harvard Film Archive screened Walden: Diaries, Notes and Sketches. This is the audio recording of the introduction and discussion that followed. Participating are filmmaker Jonas Mekas and HFA Director Haden Guest

Haden Guest  0:16 

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Haden Guest. I'm Director of the Harvard Film Archive and I'm really humbled to welcome a true legend of the American cinema tonight. It would be difficult to summarize the many, many, many accomplishments of Jonas Mekas’ long, storied, and still wonderfully ongoing career, or to measure the tremendous influence he’s exerted upon independent filmmaking in this country and around the world. We could, perhaps, begin by speaking of Jonas Mekas, the celebrated poet, whose lyrical verse is especially revered in his native Lithuania. Or we could speak of Jonas Mekas, the ardent champion of genuinely independent cinema, whether as an outspoken and insightful critic for many years at The Village Voice, or as an inventive and courageous film programmer, defying taboos and even police sanctions, to screen works of under-recognized, often controversial filmmakers. We could also speak of Jonas Mekas, the founder and longtime director of Anthology Film Archives, the first, and still today, one of the only institutions dedicated to the preservation and exhibition of avant-garde cinema. An institution that was, in fact, an important inspiration for the Harvard Film Archive, itself officially founded not shortly after Anthology. We absolutely must, however, of course, speak of Jonas Mekas, the visionary and tireless filmmaker, whose restless camera has been steadily at work since the early 1950s, chronicling, inventing, and creating moving images of rare beauty, intimacy, and indelible power. Tonight, we see one of Mekas’s milestone films and one of his most beloved works, Walden, from 1969, which is the first chapter in an extended diaristic project that continues in later works, including Lost Lost Lost, from ‘75, which we screened earlier, and his sublime magnum opus, which screens next week, As I Was Moving Ahead Occasionally I Saw Brief Glimpses of Beauty, from 2000. In Walden, we can see aspects of Mekas, the poet, and Mekas, the archivist, giving lyrical form to fragments of his life—fragments of the lost, lovely, and as he tells us, often lonely world of New York City in the 1960s, all captured by his nimble Bolex. Walden is a pioneering diary film that offers a chronicle of friends, emotions, changing seasons, the passage of time, with an intimacy and accessibility that is deeply moving and captivating. We live in what seems to be an increasingly narcissistic age, when many assume that the most mundane details of their lives are worthy of being instantly trumpeted with a false urgency and assumption of a captive audience. Which is perhaps one reason it is so refreshing, so invigorating, so important to watch Walden, which is, above all, a humble and a generous film. For here we see an artist and poet carefully selecting and shaping precious moments of his own life and the life of his adopted home, shaping and connecting them with a gentle and often self-depreciatory lyricism. I'll point you to a guide which—speaking of generous—which Jonas Mekas created to actually, to tell you who's who in this wonderful film, this is offered as a souvenir. The numbers, of course, refer to the different reels of film. This is an enduring and an essential film, and I'm thrilled that its director is here tonight, both to offer a few words of introduction and to join us again afterwards for a conversation with myself and my good colleague, Jeremy Rossen, and most importantly, with you. Please turn off any cell phones, any electronic devices, please do not use them. And please join me now in welcoming the one and only Jonas Mekas!

[APPLAUSE]

Jonas Mekas 4:53 

Thank you for coming. He said about everything that has to be said before seeing a movie. Look at it. And after it ends, I will be here to talk with you. If there are questions, I will answer, or we can talk around the questions. This was my first diaristic kind of movie. As soon as I landed in New York, on October 30, actual 29th [LAUGHS], 1949, I began recording my life. Actually, I was not conscious that I was recording my life. I thought I was just trying to master the camera, what the camera can do, the Bolex. It was Bolex, and Bolex remained to the very end of my film life before I switched to digital, because Bolex could do so many things. It could—and you will discover—you can film straight images, or you can speed it up. You can underexpose, you can overexpose—it's all there. It took me some time to realize that what I was really doing, When I began looking back at the footage that I had, that I was collecting by trying to master my camera, that I was keeping, like, a diary, of my friends, my own life. So I became more conscious of the direction and it was, like the diaristic interests that emerged, actually, in all of the arts around the same time. In all of the arts, like we had enough of stories of artificial, invented... We wanted to go to real life, to the minutest details of...and that you can find already in literature, and even then in every form of art, the diaristic interests began appearing around the same time. So, I was just going with the times, I did not invent anything, it was just part of where life was already moving into around that time. So that only when I became conscious, then, I was already going almost into classical period of the diary. So this is a selection that I did in 1967-68. I selected some of the footage that covers like five-six years period. I selected it for a special occasion, for an arts festival in Buffalo. And that's what you're going to see. So. And I will see you after.

[APPLAUSE]

John Quackenbush  9:17 

And now the conversation with HFA Director Haden Guest and the filmmaker, Jonas Mekas.

Haden Guest  9:24 

Please join me in welcoming back Jonas Mekas!

[APPLAUSE]

Jonas Mekas 9:52 

Thank you!  Thank you.

Haden Guest  9:58

Thank you everyone.

Jonas Mekas  9:59

...for seeing it to the end. Thank you.

Haden Guest  10:06 

Jonas, before we take questions and comments from our captive audience, I thought we would begin with–

Jonas Mekas 10:12 

Yeah, because I could begin, because I'm happy to see that you are still all here! Because when I took Andy Warhol’s Empire to Vienna...

Haden Guest  10:26

[LAUGHTER]

Jonas Mekas  10:27

...to Vienna, I walked in—like, you know, six hours long, Empire—and I walked into the theater, like, one hour before the end, everybody's still there! Everybody's still there! Then I walk out, have another drink, come back, like five minutes before the end, everybody's still there! The film ends: everybody! Nobody had left. (For Empire, when I have premiered it in New York, you know, half—you know, three-quarters—left.) I said, "you are amazing!" And when I was telling this to them, there is this person comes next to me and says, ”Okay, now, since you are all here, so I guess I will have a lottery for this ticket to New York. So we’ll have a lottery.” I found out that before the screening, the newspapers announced the screening, and they said, We wonder if anybody will stay to the end?

[LAUGHTER]

So they stayed, but so one of the airlines offered a free ticket to New York...

Haden Guest  11:49

[LAUGHTER]

Jonas Mekas  11:50

...for the one who will stay to the end! So they stay to the end to get the ticket! And there was a lottery, and one of the young filmmakers got the ticket. So [LAUGHS] I hope this is not the case!

Haden Guest  12:06 

No, there were no, NO tickets were given out or promised tonight. I can guarantee you, we're all here at our own volition.

Jonas Mekas 12:13 

So that was the premiere of Empire, Andy Warhol’s Empire, in Vienna.

Haden Guest  12:21 

Which, of course, you helped make happen—as you have so many great and important milestone films, including tonight's Walden. And Jonas, I wanted to start by maybe speaking about the origins of this film, because I've heard this film described as this young woman who begins and opens the film with the bare foot in the grass, that originally you had an idea to tell the story of, actually—adolescence, of a young girl's diary, and it wasn't actually your diary that this film was going to be about, it was gonna be about hers. And I was wondering how that began.

Jonas Mekas  12:58

You, you're right. That was the idea. I was collecting footage. I was shooting, you know, everyday or every second day. Never everyday, really, but on certain days, I was picking up some footage. But I was also preparing—I wanted to make a film about a younger, like teenager, practically, maybe 17 or so. You saw, like at the very end, she was 17 or so. Growing up in New York, and facing all the problems, what's happening, and sort of rethinking about, you know, how what she will be facing as she grows up. And I began collecting diaries of teenagers, and also shooting test footage. And it’s throughout the film, you see some of that footage. So it became part of my…diary footage. I never made that film, but that footage is included in this film.

Haden Guest  14:20 

And how did it become, then, your film. That was just a natural….?

Jonas Mekas 14:24 

And some of it, you will see... When is the screening of Outtakes?

Haden Guest  14:30

That’s tomorrow night!

Jonas Mekas  14:32

So there is more. Because there I included excerpts from their written diaries.

Haden Guest  14:38

Right.

Jonas Mekas  14:38

In that film. Yes.

Jeremy Rossen  14:44 

I wanted to talk to you more about the reception when Walden was finished, because at the time, I mean, it was more of, in the late 60s, the filmmaking scene was more of this kind of structuralist, very focused on material-based filmmaking, but Walden must–

Jonas Mekas 15:02 

No, no. I would say there were several directions going simultaneously. Brakhage was that direction, was going there. And of course there was Frampton, and Michael Snow. And then there was Stan Vanderbeek, there was another... Different directions. None of them took over the entire field. They were moving forward simultaneously

Jeremy Rossen  15:34 

But as far as like the–

Jonas Mekas 15:36 

Only some of the writers preferred one or the other. It's like that is the most important, you know, now, and that's what it's all about. No! Art is not like that.

[APPLAUSE AND LAUGHTER]

Jeremy Rossen  15:52 

But I think as far as diary films–

Jonas Mekas 15:57 

Okay, at the same time diaristic form came in.

Jeremy Rossen  16:00

Exactly. Right.

Jonas Mekas  16:01

Yes. Simultaneously, yes.

Haden Guest  16:04 

Now while this film is clearly inspired and at one with your own diaristic writings, it's also informed by your work as a poet. And I was wondering if you could speak a bit about the ways in which poetry informs your filmmaking in this film in particular, the way that you use these fragments and bind them together.

Jonas Mekas 16:23 

Nothing much to say. That’s how I am! I am all those things, and whatever I do, all those things come into what I'm doing. So if I write a poem, maybe some of cinema comes in, into, you know, my poetry, but when I make a film, my sensibilities are still the same. And they come in through even in my daily life. I don't think I believe in real life. I don't know on what plane I live, really. I don't understand humanity, for instance.

[LAUGHTER]

Especially today.

Haden Guest  17:14

Well, welcome to the club. [LAUGHS] Well, you gathered footage for many, many years, and then this process of actually going through and editing and selecting–

Jonas Mekas 17:26 

Then, I go, I pull out... sometimes by necessity, like, oh…. Okay, there was a chance in the year 2000, for instance, in Avignon, there was an arts festival. No—okay, from even Walden! Yes, that's how Walden originated. Gerald O'Grady, from Media Studies in Buffalo– They were organizing arts festival—theater, poetry, all the arts, and, and they said—Oh! We need also– The film should be represented. So, Gerald O’Grady called me and asked if I have anything. Said, "no, but I could make something." So that's how Walden originated, just because they will, you know—"we’ll pay all the expenses!" Oh, I said "fine, great." So that's how the first question—that's how Walden originated.

Haden Guest  18:37 

But did you have another plan for the footage that you were gathering?

Jonas Mekas 18:41 

No, I had no other plan.

Haden Guest  18:42 

So it was–

Jonas Mekas 18:44 

I had no idea what I was going to do with it. I never know when I've recorded, when I tape, when I film, what I'm going to do with it. I just like to film, and I keep filming. I’m a filmer. I'm not a film maker. Filmmaker.

Haden Guest  19:00 

And where does where does Walden come into it? Can you speak to us about– Because this is a place, a name that means so much to us, seeing as it's just around the corner...

Jonas Mekas 19:07 

As I was putting that footage together, I sort of began realizing that New York is my Walden. Like, New York is not dominated by the weather, snow, or trees. New York is, you know, all the big building, all the bustle, business, and big traffic, the noise. Yes. I realized that somehow, I managed to bring the country in which I grew up—I grew up totally in nature—and so it became that New York became my Walden. So I became more conscious of the fact that I keep bringing my…that this is not New York of my friends, but it's my New York, and my New York is like Walden. I see a tree in New York. And I am crazy! I get crazy! I see grass on the sidewalk, I go crazy about.

Haden Guest  20:32 

And it was in New York that you shot your first moving images, and I was wondering if you could bring us back to that time. What was it that inspired you to shoot your first footage in New York?

Jonas Mekas 20:43 

Well nothing in– Inspiration. I don't know what inspiration is. I just wanted to film! Record…I just filmed it! There is no inspiration in any of it.

Jeremy Rossen  21:00 

But the footage in Lost Lost Lost was shot before Walden, and but you waited longer to–

Jonas Mekas 21:06 

Oh yeah, yeah, some earlier footage, before Walden, when I was still trying to master my Bolex, is in Lost Lost Lost, and Lost Lost Lost begins with the earliest footage I ever took with my Bolex. Yes. And when—oh, when I was still, you know, somewhat thinking about back home, you know—will I ever go back, will be permitted to go?—that is all in Lost Lost Lost. But Walden I’m already, like, somewhere else.

Jeremy Rossen  21:50 

But then why did you decide to release Walden before Lost Lost Lost? There was–

Jonas Mekas 21:56 

Because Gerald O'Grady asked me to.

[LAUGHTER]

Jeremy Rossen  22:00

But…

Jonas Mekas  22:00 

And he paid for it!

[LAUGHTER]

Jeremy Rossen  22:03

Okay.

Jonas Mekas  22:04

Same as, Avignon paid for As I Was Moving Ahead. That's why I decided to take that chance, because [they were] paying. Okay, so this is my chance to put together all my home footage, family footage, and that’s how As I Was Moving Ahead….I Saw Brief Glimpses of. That's how that one originated.

Haden Guest  22:32 

I mean, there's something deeply personal about Walden where there are, you know—your relationship with your brother, his marriage, your separation. You had lived together for, for so many years, and your willingness to share these intimate moments, this intimate life experience. I find that incredibly courageous, and I–

Jonas Mekas 22:54 

I don’t have much what else to share [LAUGHS] with my friends. That's the only thing I have: my footage, my poems. So, you know, it's nothing special, we all want to, you know, have desire and wish to share with our—I hope—some good friends what we….Like, okay, Reminiscences of a Journey to Lithuania. All my friends kept asking me, you know, "What is this country, Lithuania, where you come from? What kind of people? What is there?" So when I had the chance to go to Lithuania, I said, "Okay! I will film," and I’ll make, you know, footage, and then they can see what Lithuania I come from! And that was one of the reasons, really, I wanted to film it, you know, for myself, like I was filming my childhood, in a sense, and also to share it with others, with my friends, so that they would know, finally, here is the answer where I come from. Now you have some idea where I come from.

Haden Guest  24:18 

Well, thanks to you, we have some of the most– 

Jonas Mekas  24:20

We should–

Haden Guest  24:21

We will. Yeah, I was gonna just say, some of the most indelible, you know, images and memories of, of New York in the 60s. So let's take some questions from the audience. Questions, comments? And we can start right over there.

Jonas Mekas 24:34 

At the very end there, at the end. Yes?

Haden Guest  24:36

There you go.

AUDIENCE  24:37

Hello?

Haden Guest  24:38 

Yes, speak into the microphone would be great.

AUDIENCE   24:41 

Okay. Can you–

Haden Guest  24:42 

You have to speak directly into-

AUDIENCE  24:44

I wanted–

Jonas Mekas  24:45

To the point, brief!

AUDIENCE   24:48 

Hello! I wanted to thank you for setting up Anthology Film Archives. I did spend a few months there when I lived in New York at 77-

Jonas Mekas 24:55 

Well, welcome, welcome.

AUDIENCE   24:56 

77 Wooster Street. I was there when Harry Smith fought with P. Adams Sitney, one of the many times he did, probably.

Jonas Mekas  25:04

Great!

[LAUGHTER]

AUDIENCE   25:05

But anyway, what I wanted to ask you about was, what about the sound? Because I know that the sound is New York sound, but it's sometimes–

Jonas Mekas 25:13

Yes, I like all the sounds of New York.

AUDIENCE   25:16

Right? Right, it's…

Jonas Mekas  25:17  

Subway, there are more. Any sound. I like the sounds of New York.

AUDIENCE   25:22 

Sometimes it's really hard to take, is what I was trying to say. The noise is really noisy.

Jonas Mekas 25:29 

[LAUGHS] Noise has to be noisy!

[LAUGHTER]

AUDIENCE   25:34 

Well…I used to travel the subway every day too. Okay, well thank you very much.

Jonas Mekas 25:38 

Subways and street noises in New York are essential part of New York. I like everything about New York!

[APPLAUSE]

Haden Guest  25:47 

Let’s take some questions from the back of the room.

AUDIENCE   25:55 

How influenced–

Haden Guest  25:57 

It's on, just speak into the mic, please.

AUDIENCE   25:59 

Oh, what was your relationship with, like, Andy Warhol, and how were you influenced by him?

Jonas Mekas 26:07 

My relationship with Andy was very down to earth, practical. He was making films, and needed place to show, to share them with his fans and friends. And I was running a filmmaker cinematheque. I had a space that was screening films. So as soon as he finishes making, next day, he brings, and he screens, invites all his friends, and they’re…. So it was a working relationship, a great, friendly, working relationship—and good friend, whenever I was in trouble, he always helped me.

Haden Guest  26:51 

I might actually ask the question the other way around. What was your influence on Andy Warhol? Because you were, in fact, the one who first inspired him to make films, correct?

Jonas Mekas 27:01 

His film school was my loft. So that's where he began.

Haden Guest  27:05

Right.

Jonas Mekas  27:07

Yes.

AUDIENCE   27:08

Thank you.

Haden Guest  27:09

And if you see Lost Lost Lost, you'll see some early pre-Warhol screen tests that clearly anticipate Warhol’s cinema.

Jonas Mekas  27:15 

That's where he met these early superstars, in my loft. That's where he saw, you know, the films of Ron Rice, and Jack Smith, and all the early… yes. And then he decided that ”Yes! I will make a film.”  And he began. Yes.

Haden Guest  27:38

And the rest is history. Please!

AUDIENCE   27:39

I've got a question about presentation, which I know is often not something the filmmaker decides, but the curator or somebody decides. But I actually very much like the sound, the noise as well as—I also very much like the music. And since the images are so full of movement, I wanted to know if you have ever considered screening this film to an audience that is standing up, that is attending your film as it would be attending a concert.

Jonas Mekas  28:17  

I don't get the very end…

Haden Guest  28:20 

Have you ever considered showing the film to an audience–

Jonas Mekas  28:22

Silent?

Haden Guest  28:23

Standing up! The audience is standing up like at a concert.

Jonas Mekas 28:26 

No, I don’t like—oh, they’ll turn up for…gimmick, gimmick. Yeah, I don't like gimmicky...

[LAUGHTER]

Gimmicky performances.

Jeremy Rossen  28:37 

But there was the invisible cinema.

Haden Guest  28:39 

Well….

Jonas Mekas 28:40 

No, I would never do that.

[LAUGHTER]

Haden Guest  28:44 

Okay, so not standing up. Just a little bit over the... Right there with the glasses, if….or well, we can, yeah.

AUDIENCE   28:54 

I think there were five weddings in the movie?

Haden Guest  28:58

Five weddings!

AUDIENCE   28:59

I lost count at one point.

Jonas Mekas 28:59 

And there are more than that in my other films.

AUDIENCE   29:02 

Oh, okay. I mean was there a significance, or did all your friends just happen to get married when the film was being made?

Jonas Mekas 29:07 

No, just that...A wedding is usually something very special. And whatever my friends do, sometimes if they invite me, if I'm there, I make some notes. So it's nothing special. In my films, if you string them together, it's like one long, long film epic of people are born, people live, and they have weddings, and people died, and disappear, and new people appear, and continue. It's a huge epic. Yes.

Haden Guest  29:55 

Next question.

AUDIENCE   30:00 

You do have politics in your films.

Jonas Mekas  30:03

What?

Haden Guest  30:03

Politics!

Jonas Mekas 30:05

Yes, my film is political!

AUDIENCE  30:07

Political, yeah

Jonas Mekas  30:09

Walden is a political film!

AUDIENCE   30:09 

Since President Trump has been in office, what fragments have you–

Jonas Mekas 30:15 

Can I tell– You asked me a question. I will answer the question now you asked, and that's enough!

[LAUGHTER]

It's a political film. Because what is politics? Politics is, is attitude, is way of life, how, what kind of way of living life—feeling, behavior—you take, you lead, and that way you promote and what I promote, my politics. The politicians that to me, the greatest politician of my life, are like Buckminster Fuller, the Beat Generation, that all those poets, scientists, who introduced in the way of life like something more positive, not negative, that changes, improve life—how we behave, how we think, how we live! Like Buckminster Fuller, or sense of humor, like what Fluxus did. Those are the politics that I support. Not politicians that people, and they go and vote. Those are, to me are, a negative, they’re all negative! Those are negative politics.

Haden Guest  31:59

And of course we

[APPLAUSE]

Jonas Mekas  32:00

This is my, my politics.

[APPLAUSE]

The saints! The saints! The poets! All those who lived before me, and did everything that humanity would become more beautiful, and more subtle. It's our duty not to betray them, and continue their work. Not of the politicians.

[APPLAUSE]

All the Minnesingers! All the troubadours! I am for them.

Haden Guest  32:39 

Steven, right in the middle, right in front of you, the gentleman with a ponytail.

AUDIENCE   32:44 

Hi there. Thank you so much. I'm curious if you could tell yourself, as you appear in this film, in that block of time, anything—some sort of advice, or I don't know, a stock tip—what might it be?

Haden Guest  32:58 

If he could tell himself in the film? Okay.

AUDIENCE   33:03

Well, himself as he lived [in that time?]

Jonas Mekas 33:03 

No, but you realize that once you will live as long as I'm living, that, you know, one changes and one is completely—I'm completely, or very much somewhere else today, than, you know, when I was making this film. You know, it's 50, 40-50 years. So, of course  I'm somewhere else, and I have different– I never have any suggestion. I can make one. Read Jakob Bohme! Get a copy of Jakob Bohme's writings, and read. That's one suggestion that I sincerely advise you.

AUDIENCE   33:58

Thank you.

Jonas Mekas  33:59

And that's all!

Haden Guest  34:01 

Okay. We all have homework to do. Let’s….Naomi has a question.

Jonas Mekas 34:04 

If you don’t know who he is, find out!

AUDIENCE   34:12 

Hi, thank you. There was a moment in the film where there was a sentence, and I can't quite remember it. I'm probably going to mangle it. Something like: every film is a frame, or a frame is a film?

Jonas Mekas 34:30 

Yeah, I know what you, the part that you–

AUDIENCE   34:34 

I feel like– If you could expand on that a little. I was so intrigued by that.

Jonas Mekas 34:41 

It's like cinema. In the camera, when you know, it's single frames. You know, that's where I'm in Central Park. Central Park, running with my Bolex, and say—"Oh! Cinema is light, cinema is movement, cinema is single frames." That's part of, you know, part of what cinema is. And, you know, cinema is many, many other things. But that's the part you are referring to. Yes.

Haden Guest  35:21 

Well throughout the film, you give so much attention to the single frame itself, I was wondering if you could speak about–

Jonas Mekas 35:27 

No, because the basis, much in this involved in, is the single frame. And the Bolex camera is very good for that, because you can single-frame, and you can wind back if you want to, it's very precise, and superimpose exactly on the same frame, if you want. And also, you can very easily change the exposures, and so during that period, I was very much interested in all of the, well, possibilities, like in the notes on the circus part. I did everything there in those 10 minutes that a Bolex camera can do. It's like a textbook for what you can do with the Bolex. And also it's three-ring circus, so I went three times to it, and it superimposes three times, and…yeah.

Haden Guest  36:26 

We have some other questions. Let's take a question at the very back. Actually, if you could wait for the microphone—that way, everybody can hear your question for Mr. Mekas.

AUDIENCE   36:35 

Mr. Mekas, I just have a very quick technical question.

Was it all in-camera edits? How much were you editing after the footage was made? And how much was in-camera editing?

Jonas Mekas 36:46 

All editing is during the filming.

AUDIENCE   36:48

During the filming, okay.

Jonas Mekas  36:49

Later, I just string the pieces together. I eliminate—there is a process of elimination, where I eliminate some parts, or repetitions, or I shift, sort of, the order. But it's all during the filming. And if I fail during the filming, it's no good. The concentration, the real editing, structuring, is during the moment of filming—like during the moment of, you know, when jazz musician plays. It’s during the moment of when you do it. You cannot fix it up later.

You can do it, like fixing up is, like—okay, when you write something, you may misspell something, so you correct a letter, or you know…a period, or you add, or take out a comma. It's that type– Yes, I do that type of—can we call it editing? That's not really editing.

Haden Guest  38:00 

Let's take some questions down here in front, if you wouldn't mind dashing down with a microphone.

Jonas Mekas  38:06

In front?

Haden Guest  38:07

Yes, right here. Here comes Stefan, right here with a microphone.

Jonas Mekas 38:10 

Until now only the balcony was asking questions. Let's get front row.

AUDIENCE   38:16 

Yes, I was able to see Sleepless Nights Stories a week or two ago, which you made a few years ago.

Jonas Mekas  38:23

Yes.

AUDIENCE   38:24

And stylistically, these two films, you know, the style is still similar. In the decades, in the years that you've been making films, how do you–

Jonas Mekas 38:34 

The film that the gentleman refers to, Sleepless Nights Stories, was one of my video pieces. And to begin with, the instrument with which you make your art— in any art—determines the subject matter, the way you do it, the form….So of course, there is a big difference between Sleepless Nights Stories, because there I was using a Sony video camera, and here I was using a Bolex.

AUDIENCE   39:18 

So my question is, has your philosophy or attitude–

Jonas Mekas 39:22 

I have no philosophy!

[LAUGHTER]

Jonas Mekas 39:25 

No philosophy has anything to do with it.

AUDIENCE   39:30

Thank you!

[LAUGHTER]

Haden Guest  39:33 

Okay, if you want to just pass the mic over.

AUDIENCE   39:41 

I was wondering, have you found any rabbit shit recently?

[LAUGHTER]

Jonas Mekas  38:46

What? Can you repeat…

Haden Guest  39:46

Have you found any rabbit shit recently!

Jonas Mekas 39:47

What?

AUDIENCE   39:49

Rabbit shit.

Jonas Mekas 39:50 

No, no, no, I haven't seen it. I haven't been, and maybe tomorrow.

AUDIENCE   39:56

Thank you!

[LAUGHTER]

Jonas Mekas  39:57

Maybe I–

Haden Guest  39:57

We’re taking…Mr Mekas….

Jonas Mekas  39:58

Don’t tell where we are going!

Haden Guest  40:00

Okay, I won’t tell them, all right…

[LAUGHTER]

We're not going anywhere tomorrow.

Jonas Mekas 40:06 

We are going into the woods tomorrow, so we may find some.

AUDIENCE   40:12 

I was just curious about the couple seconds that Carl Theodor Dreyer was in the movie? I was wondering if, well, I guess, like, why he was in there, or like how you got to meet him.

Jonas Mekas 40:28 

Ah….he was in New York for a screening of one of his films in the New York Film Festival.

AUDIENCE   40:38

Gertrud?

Jonas Mekas 40:40

And, I met him, and I was at that point interested in making portraits, like film portraits. So I asked him if I could make his portrait, and he got very interested. He said, “Sure, yes! How you do, what you…?" I said "Yeah, okay, I will come. Can I see you tomorrow there?" So yes! And he was very interested what I was doing, but all I did is, you know, just—you saw what I did. And that was all! But we became very good friends and we corresponded a lot, you know….

AUDIENCE  41:31

Thank you.

Haden Guest  41:33 

Right here, the gentleman in the turtleneck.

AUDIENCE  41:42 

What are you working on now?

Jonas Mekas 41:46 

I'm building a library. When everybody’s destroying libraries, closing, I'm building one.

[APPLAUSE]

I’m building one on top of the present Anthology Archives building in New York. I'm adding another floor on top, which will be a library of film—paper materials on cinema, books, periodical, documentation—and we have a lot! And we are getting more and more. And it's all in boxes now, not available. At the beginning of Anthology Film Archives, somebody offered us some money to go to Europe and buy what's still available in bookshops from the 20s, from the 30s. And P. Adams Sitney went, with that money, to Europe, and he went to Italy, to Germany, to France, England, and come to all those bookshops. And he sent packages and packages of books, and now, very often, we receive calls from different countries, who say, “Do you have this book?” Or do we have this periodical? And "Yes, we have it!" Our library is very unique. So, I'm building the library, and also a little cafe on the side of the building, so that we can see the films and then go and then discuss, and argue, and get angry, and get passionate and fight about cinema, not about, you know, countries. So...

[LAUGHTER]

That's what I'm doing! And to sponsor it, I'm organizing an art auction, and every dollar that I will get in that art auction, I have a foundation that will match it dollar by dollar. So the more I do in the auction, the better. So, any artists here?

Haden Guest  44:17

If you’re an artist, raise your hand!

Jonas Mekas  44:18

Do you know any artists? Do you know personally any artist that’s not only good, but also sells.

[LAUGHTER]

That sells!

[LAUGHTER]

Tell them please give a piece—a good piece—to Anthology Film Archives, and help to build the library of cinema!

Haden Guest  44:46 

A noble cause!

[APPLAUSE]

Jonas Mekas 44:51 

[UNKNOWN] so that the cathedral of cinema can be completed!

Jeremy Rossen  44:58 

But you also have book projects, many book projects, and moving-image projects too, but…

Jonas Mekas  45:04

Oh, let’s not—let’s not go into it.

[LAUGHTER]

Jeremy Rossen  45:06 

Okay, well just…

[LAUGHTER]

Haden Guest  45:07 

If you haven't noticed, Jonas Mekas is indefatigable, and has many, many projects. Let's take a couple more questions, if there are. We could take one right here from the front, Stefan. And we'll just wait for the mic, because then that way everybody can hear your question.

AUDIENCE  45:23 

Thank you. Mr. Mekas, I was wondering if film had really taken you to anywhere, since you have never been–

Jonas Mekas 45:31 

No. The question if the film has taken me anywhere. No, it hasn’t. I am still nowhere, and I'm very happy.  I’m very happy that I'm nowhere, and I'm happy where I am.

AUDIENCE 45:45

Thank you.

Jonas Mekas  45:46

And…yes, thank you. Anybody else?

Haden Guest  45:50 

Let’s take a final question from right there. And then, Matt, Katerina?

Jonas Mekas 45:56 

I don't want to go anywhere, anymore.

AUDIENCE  46:00 

Mr. Mekas, I just wanted to ask you. The film is full of so many just beautiful and important moments. One of them being the portrait of Carl Dreyer, but also just the woman's foot on the grass or—the film is full of them, butbecause the film is a film, and it's taking place in time, those moments go by so quickly. And especially when you are using the single frame in the way that you are, and speeding it up. And I was wondering if you could just say something about why, or what is important to you about taking these beautiful moments.

Jonas Mekas  46:47  

Ah—fast and slow. It's my temperament—I cannot change it. It's me. It's my temperament, that is reflected in that, and that's how I see reality as I'm recording it. And so a reality the way I see and the way I record it merge, then the way I am, what I am merges together, and the result is what—it’s there. Yes.

AUDIENCE  47:15  

[INAUDIBLE]

Jonas Mekas  47:21

You are thinking?

Haden Guest  47:22 

Actually if he…no, ‘cause we–

AUDIENCE  47:29 

So the psychedelic aspect of sort of the impressionistic use of all those images, so fastly moving, okay, that was costly-

Jonas Mekas  47:36

By the way, the images are not fast! The music is performed in single notes!

AUDIENCE  47:45

[LAUGHS] Not the music—okay, okay, yes. But I'm thinking in terms of like the drug culture, was this–

Jonas Mekas 47:49 

One has to learn how to listen to music, one has to learn how to see films, also. Yes.

AUDIENCE  47:57 

I guess my question has to do with drug culture, which of course, the people you were around were associated with the drug culture of the 60s. Was that—are we thinking psychedelic sort of treatment here, in this particular diary? The way you did this….[UNKNOWN] when I was high…

Jonas Mekas 48:16 

To reduce—I refuse to reduce single-frame, cinema based on single frame to psychedelics!

Haden Guest  48:24

Okay.

Jonas Mekas 48:25 

I don't accept that.

[LAUGHTER]

Haden Guest  48:28 

Hear, hear! Jonas, we have a small gift to you from the students here at Harvard.

Jonas Mekas  48:34

Small? That looks pretty big [LAUGHS]

[LAUGHTER]

Haden Guest  48:37 

Well, it’s small. It's a banner that was made by painting students in the studio upstairs.

Jonas Mekas 48:43 

Can I sell it? For the…

[LAUGHTER]

Haden Guest  48:45 

Maybe you can!

[LAUGHTER]

Jeremy Rossen  48:46

Wait a minute, wait a minute!!

Haden Guest  48:47 

It says "The HFA loves Jonas." And this was just made in the last 48 hours. 

Jonas Mekas  48:56

Thank you.

Haden Guest  48:58 

Let’s share the love, ladies and gentlemen!

[APPLAUSE]

©Harvard Film Archive