Audio transcription
For more interviews and talks, visit the Harvard Film Archive Visiting Artists Collection page.
Films of Place by Ute Aurand with Haden Guest and Ute Aurand. Monday March 30, 2015.
John Quackenbush 0:30
Monday March 30, 2015. The Harvard Film Archive screened three films by filmmaker Ute Aurand. This is the recording of the introduction and the post-screening Q&A with HFA Director Haden Guest and filmmaker Ute Aurand.
Haden Guest 0:48
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, my name is Haden Guest. I'm Director of the Harvard Film Archive. It's a great pleasure to be here tonight to welcome back experimental filmmaker Ute Aurand. Ute was here in 2012 with a program of film portraits. And she returns tonight with work from a trilogy of films about places. A trilogy that began in 2005 with a film in India called India which we'll be seeing tonight, continued with Young Pines, a film made in Japan in 2011, and was recently completed with a film made here in our very own US of A, called To Be Here. And while these films all, I think, offer portraits of these different, very different, and from her native Germany, distant lands, I think these three films can also be seen to offer a kind of refracted portrait of the artist, for Aurand’s presence and personality is everywhere apparent in these films. In the exuberantly restless camera, in the joyously spontaneous editing, which I think is a real signature of her works and reaches a real high point in these three films.
We live in a cynical age, ladies and gentlemen, and it's so refreshing and important to see the work of such an open-hearted artist who shows, who’s not afraid to express her joie de vivre, a quality that I think is so clear in all of these works. Now, of the film that Ute Aurand made in Japan, we're not going to be seeing that work. We're going to be seeing instead a brand-new film, edited, made from Aurand's Japanese footage, and that's a film called Sakura, Sakura, which is a short, a really lovely film, which will close tonight's program. I want to ask everybody to please turn off any cell phones, any electronic devices that you have on you, and please refrain from using them. These are three 16-millimeter films, and they will look really, really gorgeous tonight, I promise you. Please join me in welcoming Ute Aurand!
[APPLAUSE]
Ute Aurand 3:42
Thank you Haden. Thanks for coming tonight. I don't want to say too much. And I think Haden gave you a little introduction, which helps you, maybe, to go through this program. We decided that we will see the two films India and America, To Be Here, just one after the other. There will be a little break in between, just for the projection situation. And then I will give a few words to Sakura, Sakura. But maybe the impulse for these... It was not a concept that I will make three films of lands or countries. He said “lands.” I find this interesting, because in English, I always thought “countries” and then I suddenly read “land.” And in Germany we have also “land.” And I asked Robert, “What's the difference between the country and the land?” And he said the land is maybe not so much political? So I thought, that's interesting to call it “land.” So when I first went to India, it was actually my yoga brought me to India. But as usual, when I'm traveling, I took my Bolex camera with me, and was filming here and there, and didn't know that I [would] make a film. But I was so much involved, and so overwhelmed by what, what this culture, or this country gave me, that I wanted to come back and make a film. And then I went to Japan, invited by Japanese friends, and showed films there, [made] a program. And again, I started, took the camera and decided then later, I will go deeper into it, and we'll come back and make a film. And then after this—maybe when, these were two situations, or two visits to places where I have never been, so I was working with a first impression. And anyway, I believe in first impressions. And so I felt very familiar with this kind of how I worked. But then I decided, then it became more, can I do a third film?, you know? And what to edit then? And because I was traveling often to the States, and I was thinking maybe I should film in a Western country, which the first impression is not so easy to work with. So I decided to make a film in the States. And here, I focused on New England and on the Southwest. The Southwest was first. I had never been there before. So yeah, that's it. Enjoy it.
[APPLAUSE]
John Quackenbush 6:43
And now, filmmaker Ute Aurand and Haden Guest.
Haden Guest 6:51
Please join me in welcoming back Ute Aurand.
[APPLAUSE]
Haden Guest
[WHISPERING] Here’s water.
Thanks so much for this...
Ute Aurand
Yeah!
Haden Guest
...really great program.
Ute Aurand 7:05
Thank you, Haden.
Haden Guest 7:06
Everyone enjoyed watching the two longer films together. As we were discussing before, none of us had seen them back-to-back like this. And so to me what was particularly interesting was just seeing how, I mean, besides the many differences, just rhythmically how different these films are. I wanted to just talk about editing. I wanted to speak a bit about the first film, about India. Because it seems this has a very musical structure, you've given a real place to song and dance in the film, and these beautiful pauses between, in the soundtrack, that sort of give a different rhythm to the image. But then, I'm also thinking, just these beautiful sort of, you know, I love your editing, I love the use of the in-camera edits, this quickening pulse of the film that we get when you sort of rush towards something. But there are times when it seems that your camera, through editing, is almost dancing with the subject, or dancing to the music. That baker who's making those rolls. Or the girl in the street towards the beginning. So I was wondering if you could speak a bit about editing and music in India, and maybe we can then start thinking about editing in general, in terms of your attitudes, philosophy and such.
Ute Aurand 8:29
I mean basically, maybe all of you know, but when I'm working, or when I'm filming, I have the camera, and I have the sound. There are two machines, so it's, usually I film silently and have my soundtrack—my sound recording with me. So, then that means the reaction when I'm filming, is basically more from the physical—what the people are doing, their rhythm in the action, and so this is really editing later, to put the music to it. But I mean, how I use the camera is, I try to find a rhythm while I'm filming. So there are these two elements while I'm filming: the editing, in, so-called “in the camera,” and the second is the montage later. So yeah, it's right, because I'm always working with the handheld camera. So also my physical—I can move around, you know? And I can push the button and stop it and make interruptions. And because of the analog camera, you know, you hear the camera running, and you hear also your interruptions, so you are creating—while filming, one is creating one’s own rhythm also. And that has an auditive element in it. Yeah. Is it an…??? [LAUGHS]
Haden Guest 10:05
Oh, yeah. No, no, no. But then, the larger structure of the film, though, too, goes through a series of...
Ute Aurand 10:10
Yeah. I mean, this has maybe to do with India, also. Because everywhere where you are in the streets, from, or from a little temple in the yard, you hear a lot of music, you hear a lot of noise. And it is like, you know, you are constantly in a cloud. And, it was not disturbing me. So... but you had to go with the flow, you have to go. As soon as you think it's too busy, it's too many people and nothing is working—And I was lucky that I was diving into this, into this chaotic way, and how the people are, with their vehicles, with all these facets... what they are creating. So I felt a little bit like swimming into this Indian universe. And... yeah.
Haden Guest 11:11
But it's also, I mean, you use ambient sound, or recorded sound also in very, you know, interesting moments. Where it's, I mean, usually music seems to come first. And there's a moment where you have this beautiful sort of like “mountainscape” of, of white sheets, and you hear, you know, the traffic sounds, and the bird as well. So I love this sort of expressive use, as well, of the ambient recorded sounds, and finding a different kind of musicality, if you will, a texture within [INAUDIBLE].
Ute Aurand
Um hmm. Um hmm.
Haden Guest
But moving to the film that you made here, to, [LAUGHS] to To Be Here, as well, we have, I mean, song has a certain important pride of place in this film that was, in a sense, inspired by this anthem, no?
Ute Aurand 12:03
The “America the Beautiful.” Yes.
Haden Guest 12:04
Yes, exactly. But one of the things I love is the, when you go to the lyrics, we have these exclamation points. And to me, that sort of summarizes, I think, a certain facet of your cinema. There's a kind of exclamatory, I don't know, excitement to this. But at the same time, this seems to be much more, I don’t know, like, idea-driven film, perhaps. And this idea of community and utopia that you explore in the film. And I was wondering if that might be something you could speak a bit about.
Ute Aurand 12:39
Um hmm. Yeah. I mean, while I was watching it today [LAUGHS], I also realized the differences. So my approach to the United States was different, because I, as you maybe recognized, I was not looking into the, you can say, “daily life.” And that's when you are more familiar, one is more judging. One not a white piece of paper anymore. So, I thought, I want to emphasize what I like in the country here. What is different for me, what inspired me, what makes me [excited]? And so, I mean, the Southwest is a different thing. So, when we stay with the New England part, I mean, this basic idea, when I came first was: you come in any little town or any little village here, and you see five, six churches and of different congregations, and I had no idea how many can exist. And so then I also visited the Shakers, and went into this utopian… that people came here to realize their ideas, and which is connected to a vision. And I can still find it! And then the women colleges, of course, was something we don't have in Germany, women colleges. And when I first visited Mount Holyoke, I was very impressed. And then it was a little bit– The circle was closed because Katharine Lee Bates, who wrote the lyrics of “America the Beautiful,” she was a professor at Wellesley College. And then I researched this Seven Sisters phenomenon. And so they were—yeah, their strengths… And then when I visited, it was spontaneous. I showed films, and I asked who wants to come the next morning at one o'clock. And we meet here, and maybe you want to ask, answer some questions? So I put my tape recorder in the middle, and asked them if, and how they feel studying on the women college. And there were, you see, I mean, there were about thirteen girls there. And also the diversity of the countries, and this international network [that] they are building up, I was impressed. So we have this more documentary element, suddenly. You know, and then, of course, Rochester and Kodak, and when we were there, it was just a big meeting for the workers to discuss the pension and all these problems. So, yeah, facing it as a filmmaker. Yeah. So, it was more content, no? And it was also a bit planned. I go here, I go there. So sometimes I followed the Emily Dickinson.. the garden and the envelope, so little bits, you know, sometimes only hints. It's not so... I'm not so much a digger deep into the ground. [LAUGHING] So I like the surface.
Haden Guest 16:01
Also, I like the way you... to me, landscape, as well. There's a sense, I feel like, in the films, you're looking at a certain image and imaginary of these different lands. It's something that's really pronounced in the Japanese film. And we even get a glimpse of it here, where we see all these sort of icons of Japan, you know, the sakura, the cherry blossoms, the cranes. And here in your American film, the US film, the landscape, too, which I think is so important here as well. So I was wondering if you could maybe speak a bit about this, you know, idea of, or the image of America, both finding it actualized, and at the same time, abstracted within these landscapes of the West.
Ute Aurand 16:46
Yeah, I mean, of course, in the West, I mean, I saw a lot of images of the Monument Valley. But when I was really there, physically, it was quite a different experience. So, for me the problem was, how to bring this in the film? Is there anything left in the images? You know, you have seen these images so often. But when I was there, this emptiness and silence, and then you really thought the landscape is talking, the nature is talking. And the nature is incorporating the history, of course, the history of the country, and who was living there before. And then suddenly, when we were driving through Nevada, it was actually Nevada when, when there's a little sign of a prehistoric place. Then we found this in carvings and in signs. So there are the hints, and of course, the Hopi was spontaneous, but we thought we should try to include it in the visit, in the driving. And it was a coincidence, there was a wonderful basket dance that day, but it's completely forbidden. Without announcing it before, and getting permissions, you can't even make a photo. So that's why I was thinking how to bring this into the movie. [LAUGHS] That’s why I thought the little animation, maybe it gives an idea. Yeah, and this space was incredible. And then, I also realized the size of the country, and how far away was New England. I mean, when you are down there, this is really far away. And so, yeah, that was the experience.
Haden Guest 18:43
Let’s, let's take some questions from, from the audience, if we can. We have audience mics here. So are there any questions or comments for Ute?
Yes, we have one here. If you're actually, if you just speak in the mic, then we can all hear your question. Thank you.
Audience 1 19:00
I just start with a comment. I've never been to India, so it was all foreign to me. Whereas seeing New England, and a land that I know, your film made so much sense, and I experienced your openness of filming as incredibly loving. It was a really moving experience to see a landscape that I know in your movie.
Ute Aurand
Um hmm.
Audience 1
So, it’s not a question, it's just a comment. Thank you very much.
Haden Guest 19:27
No, I mean, I agree. And I think that the sort of utopian promise that, you know, I think that—of church and community, of college. I think it's easy, again, just to overlook. And your film takes it sincerely. And I agree with the gentleman, and I do find it very, very touching, and at the same time quite insightful.
Any other? Yes, we have a...
Audience 2
I think you also have an audience that’s hungry for pictures of summer and spring and ocean and whatever! [LAUGHTER] So we're just reveling in that. I just had a question also about the children in the film India. Are they also so joyous, when the camera isn't rolling? They seem so joyful, and their faces so happy.
Ute Aurand 20:21
I mean, one knows that there are a lot of poor people also in the film. So I think the reality is not always very joyful. But I think it's a communication. It's a moment between people, you know? What does it mean, when we communicate? So this, this energy is maybe, I don't know, not happiness, but this is life, and in this moment. And I felt it was very easy to communicate, you know, and to get in contact with them. And the response… So I think it's more this. It doesn't mean that the children in India are very happy children, you know? I think children are all over the globe happy. [LAUGHS] But… or not happy. But I think it was this communication. Yeah. And maybe also my—of course, what I see in children. I think it's reflected, it comes through, you know? When you see something in children, when they open up something up for yourself, then maybe it is visible also in how I film them.
Haden Guest 21:38
I'm curious to know a little bit more about your experience in India, and the kind of relationships you had with the people we see within the film. There's certain moments where it seems you're almost like a member, a close member...
Ute Aurand
Yeah.
Haden Guest
...within a home. Other times...
Ute Aurand
It's not, yeah. Yeah. I mean, basically, in the beginning, I was not with my scooter. But in the late– It was three trips to India. And so, I was getting more familiar. And in the end, I had my own scooter, and was more in this whole thing. But yeah, basically, I was a foreigner, and looking, and we are moving in the public space. But there was this one family with the two girls, where I know them better then, and then they invited me. Yeah, yeah. It was fun. Also with the dress, she's dressing up. And then… the rowing situation was a small little trip with people I knew through my yoga. Yeah, we made it an excursion. But basically, I think it was this: we are foreigners.
Haden Guest 22:53
Any other questions? Yes.
Audience 3 23:02
Hi. Thank you. I was curious, between India and the US and even in Japan, you seem to gravitate towards the face and the hands, and then the flowers or plant life? And I was curious: why do you choose those subjects? And what do those different subjects reveal to you as you're making the films?
Ute Aurand 23:30
I mean, I also recognize that. When the American film started, we have different flowers. Yeah, with the hands, I don't know. It's an expression of a human, of a human being. And hands have some– It's very intimate, but at the same time, you don't look into the face, you know? It’s more… it's another, I don't know. And because often they are moving, or gestures, I can't tell. But in India—oh, maybe... but I know that I always have this viewpoint, you know? But in India, it was so easy, because everyone is working with their hands very much. The whole physical presence of people is completely different. It was also different to Japan, very much. And also, the touch: they touch each other all the time. All these men, I thought these are, when I first came, I thought, everyone is homoerotic here, all these homosexuals here, these young men. And then I realized it's totally normal, you know? And then even the women are touching each other.
Haden Guest
The men hold hands.
Ute Aurand
So yeah, yeah, I saw incredible scenes, which are so-called normal there, you know? So yeah, it's not so difficult to look for it. You know, it's, it's really offering, also… yeah, the physical, the physical. It's this mixture of physical and spiritual in this country which impressed me also. You know, the combination of the two. And even all their walking. I mean, this elegancy also. It is so elegant, you know? A this is what makes the beauty that you think, it was really difficult to see the ugliness. Sometimes I was really with a kind of, you can say, a kind of glasses which only saw beauty everywhere. Even if you take another pair of glasses, you see the difficulties and the pain.
Haden Guest
Yes.
Audience 4 25:49
I have a quick question, actually, about the music and the tune that you ended the part of India, the last part of India. Did you deliberately use that tune and the music?
Ute Aurand
If I what?
Audience 4
Did you deliberately use that music and the tune that you ended the film India with? It's actually quite...
Ute Aurand 26:09
I chose because they, the girls, which have this hand game, you know, before ending? They were singing it. So it comes a little bit from this moment, when they were singing, and then, I don't know, I find a melancholy also in this song. I don't know, I don't understand anything, you know? You know, maybe.
Audience 4 26:28
That’s why I’m asking you. Because it actually captures the basic philosophy of Indian culture. So...
Ute Aurand
Okay, good.
Audience 4
But it's a not a very philosophical song. But it's a very simple and common song. But–
Ute Aurand
Oh, yeah.
Audience 4
I just wanted to know whether you deliberately...
Ute Aurand 26:41
No, no, I liked it. No. And I repeated it. And also, at that moment, with this, it's a little bit chronologic. I was thinking, it is not really thought out chronological, my editing. But it starts with the very first moment, what I shot from the balcony of my hotel room. And then it's ending with the very last day, in the morning with the rickshaw driving. And this woman, which I met, and which is surrounded by the song, it was a very private—I didn't know her. We just started, in one of these temples, you know, we are sitting, and suddenly I had her whole life. She was talking. And I liked her very much, but it was clear, we will speak, and then I'm going away, you know? And so, I don't know, it's... yeah, I don't know.
Audience 4
Yeah, basically, the last line actually said, like, “you got this moment.”
Ute Aurand
You can tell me later.
Audience 4
“You enjoy the moment; it might not be here tomorrow”
Ute Aurand
Um hmm.
Audience 4
Something like this. So it's...
Ute Aurand
Good! I will, I will ask you later, a little bit more about this, alright? [LAUGHS]
Haden Guest 27:50
Okay. Another question?
Audience 5 27:54
Thank you. Such beautiful, beautiful work. But I'm curious how you came to the title of the first film, because I believe it was all one city. No?
Ute Aurand
Yeah.
Audience 5
So, if it was all one city, I wonder why you didn't just call it that city, instead of a whole country, the name of a whole country?
Ute Aurand
Yeah. Yeah...
Ute Aurand 28:14
I did it, I don’t know, because I find it too... I mean, if I would call it “Pune,” I would think, you know, because for me, for me, this was India. Of course, you know, this is very delicate, because you can only do this when you are a foreigner and far away. [The] more you go into something and know it better, you can't do it. I couldn't name the America film “United States of America.” It's ridiculous. So… and I know! Yeah? But, this India stood for—it’s staying for more than... You know, when I would name it “Pune,” it's just the city. But when I call it India, it is carrying the whole—this special subcontinent, this very unique, unique culture. You know? And in the last year, I was traveling to India, Hong Kong, and then in Chile. And really, I mean, also, when you see countries which were colonized, India, really... this respect for the religion, and for what they kept, it's unique for me. So it's India. [LAUGHS]
Haden Guest
Alex?
Ute Aurand
Maybe politically not correct.
[LAUGHTER]
Audience 6 29:45
Hi, I was wondering if you could speak a little more about your use of exposure. That was something I noticed throughout the films: in addition to the editing style, the way in which the images would fade in and fade out, it kind of left like another aspect, another sense that the images were alive, they were kind of like breathing in and out. And I wondered if that was just a product of the way that you shoot? Or, if it was...
Ute Aurand
No.
Audience 6
That you found that the images cut better together when you had these different exposures, or?
Ute Aurand 30:17
Ummmmmm, yeah….? I don't know. Yeah, especially—maybe. But I wouldn't, first, I don't want to say yes to this. It doesn't sound so nice. But it sounds nicer if I would say I'm emphasizing, I'm using it also as a rhythmic element, or a musical element, you know? And this is true, but I have the tendency, of course, the pain of a cut is something we have to deal [with] when we make films. So what is the cut? And it's true that I sometimes have the tendency to, to make it a little more smooth, you know. And of course, when you go up and down, it's like breathing, or it's more harmonic than the cuts. Of course, one goes also to the school of radical cuts. [LAUGHS] But one has to find one’s own way. You know?
Haden Guest
Brittany.
Audience 7 31:37
Yeah. I just have a couple kind of practical questions, because I just kept imagining you being there and filming all the time. And I was just wondering: your sound isn't synchronous, but I was wondering if you were recording sound while you were shooting? Or you recorded it, you shot some, then you recorded it? I don't know. I just kept wondering about that. And then also just how much you're shooting, generally.
Ute Aurand 32:02
Yeah, I mean, recording. Sometimes I'm recording when I'm not filming because the sound is so interesting. So sometimes I put it… just when I film. I also put it somewhere that I have the sound even—I don't know if I will really need it, it depends. And what is an answer to the sound question?
How much film? Yeah. I mean, in America, I had more footage. I think, maybe one-to-two, -two-and-a-half? So India is maybe only not even one-to-two, maybe less. But in the States, I had more footage. Also depends on how much money you get for your film.
[LAUGHTER]
A little bit.
Haden Guest 33:02
Well, Ute, I want to thank you for a really wonderful evening, and we will be seeing you soon!
Ute Aurand
Thank you. Thank you. [LAUGHS]
[APPLAUSE]
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